Re: [cs-pdcdca] Re: [ProgSoc] A questions

[Rosanne Monique Hodgekiss <rmhodgek@nospam.it.uts.edu.au>]

Alister,
it's truly a wonderful thing to cross foils with someone with a heart for
political science, so here goes again..

> > Well, social stratification exists regardless of what system we operate
> > under. Typically we apply ourselves to fields in which we consider
> > ourselves proficient.
>
> Sure - but *we* apply ourselves.  In Soviet Russia, *fields* apply
> themselves to *you* (to quote an aging Slashdot saying).
Yes, this is true, although no-one ever saw Chairman Mao and his buddies
displace themselves hundreds of miles to take upon themselves a yoke in
the name of "cultural revolution". We still have society stratified
between those who rule and are ruled. Or as Orwell said: "All people are
equal, but some are more equal than others".

> Two words for that.  Fucking appalling.  It's fine if you're il Duce, not
> too bad if you're a hanger-on, and pretty shitty for everyone else.
> Fascist societies stagnate anyway, as talented people get kept 'in their
> place'.
But the funny thing about all this is that Fascist states and brutal
dictatorships did/do exist. It's nice to hate it in retrospect but better
to understand why these decisions were made in the first place. Why did a
number of states turn to Fascist leadership after the Depression? Why does
the so-called "greatest democracy" put up with phony elections (to take a
leaf from Michael Moore) and unjustified wars, regardless of world
opinion? If you ask me, there are degrees of Fascism visible in current
events- now that is something to be truly appalled about.

Plato had an artisan class to handle the latter problem, if I do remember
correctly. It was their sole purpose to educate, entertain and inspire the
population. Unfortuanately, this would ultimately have the effect of
removing the arts from the "common people" whilst furthermore restricting
creativity to simply upholding state policy. I think it's time I ripped
"The Republic" to shreds again. :)

> You'll note that Germany was definitely not Roman Catholic.  Germany was
> home of the Reformation - Martin Luther ring a bell?  Greece remained
> fascist because the Americans after WWII replaced the (largely Communist)
> partisans with the fascists who had been Axis collaborators.
Ok, change that to Christian. Sorry, I momentarily forgot how uninspiring
Reformation artworks are. Moralistic still lifes drive me nuts. :)
The theory behind Christian states becoming Fascist is that they are so
used to blindly consuming doctrine anyway (no one be offended- I still
have to visit god's house every sunday and he still hasn't left me a note or a
pizza in the oven..!). Fascism does bring momentary stability to a society
gone mad. Germany was an industrial powerhouse during the war and was
not far off domination of the sea. The thing is, it was hardly designed as
a permanent fixture.

Anyway, back to Java. Parry, riposte!
-Ros


--Ros Hodgekiss------------------------------------
President, COMPSOC (Computing Society) UTS
BScIT (2nd year) | University of Technology, Sydney
Contact: rmhodgek@nospam.it.uts.edu.au | +61401205556
----------http://www.compsoc.uts.edu.au------------

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, alister air wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Rosanne Monique Hodgekiss wrote:
>
>
> > Plato's assertion would have been very convenient from a leadership point
> > of view. Imagine, a well balanced society in which every class knew their
> > own place as part of the whole and were comfortable in their destinies
> > being set. Such "caste"-groupings seldom have to be treated with any sort
> > of subjective care based on disparate wants and needs.
>
>
> > Social and cultural diversity is a beautiful thing during times of peace but
> > come the crunch, often societies do look for strong leadership. Thus the rise
> > of Fascism in Roman Catholic nations after the Great Depression. Consider
> > that Greece was perpetually being assailed. It must have seemed a concept
> > worth flirting with.
>
>
> > I'll get back to you on this one. Kennedy is certainly an interesting case
> > as everyone seems to have a different perspective on the matter.
>
> Which Kennedy?  I reckon Bobby's is the more interesting one anyway.
>
> > Sorry, I should be studying for SQL :)
>
> Good luck...
>
> A.
>
>
>
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