Re: [ProgSoc] HTML Editors (was: New Intel Logo)

[pkennedy@nospam.keycorp.com.au]

Patrick Kennedy@nospam.KEYCORP LTD.
05/26/98 03:49 PM



hello

}I've got a FrontPage web running on an NT box (I didn't design it, or put
}it there in the first place, I just have to maintain it.) It sux.
}Netscape regularly bombs (bus errors) when I try to run one of M$ .asp
}things from the FrontPage built things.
look up what ASP means....from this derive the conclusion that it can't
possibly have anything to do with which browser you use

}version control? RCS.
}> automated maintenance,
}
}eh? Is this some whizzbang thing the rest of we sysadmins haven't heard
}of? Something which updates page data automagically? please explain.
}
}What, like cgi? perl? /bin/sh? Again, pls explain.
ok was not talking specically about FP there.....but web development
packages vs. just a text editor

}navigation control,
}
}otherwise known as a file system.
no as in managing links between pages, updating links as filenames change
etc etc

}in-built search/index.
}
}grep.
get real....i meant a search facility for the site
although a Perl CGI search engine using grep is interesting :)

}I disagree with the principle of this comment. Agreed, no tool is
}perfect. Coding by hand, in whatever language, still provides the
}tightest, cleanest, most stable and maintainable code, if done correctly.
ok, take 5 days to write something
i'll write it in 2 and with less effort.....we'll see who has the contract

i suppose you're going to tell me can write a whole C application in one
line? :)

}These 4GL type programs allow you to create quick, average code. Check
}the source output by FrontPage. It's a mess. And all those <bot> or
}whatever they are tag things that get put in there. wtf? How am I
}supposed to copy HTML to a unix webserver?
who cares what it looks like! you shouldn't ever look at raw HTML
and as for using a unix webserver....welll....i'll stay clear of that one
you can however use FP and not include stuff which requires FPServer
Extensions

}Oh, and there's a "feature" on one page I maintain where FP was used to
}create little java applets for the equivalent of Javascript
}onmouseover/onmouseout stuff. A whole Java applet. For each button. Slow
}to load? You better believe it. Coded by hand, I'd have to write 1 applet
}with a bit of code to handle each button and what they do. It'd run
}faster, be smaller and quicker to load and less taxing on the user's
browser.
yes, in that area it's basically made easy for dummies, and i'd say to sell
MS web servers
the nav buttons it produces are not as good as doing your own rollovers
depends how good you are at it, and how much time you want to spend

}Code, if done right, should be easily maintainable and stable. Using a
}package like FrontPage doesn't make good code, it just does things
}quickly for those with little knowledge. I can create good stuff with vi,
}a browser and gimp (Gnu Image Manipulation Program) just as quick. And my
}code will run under unix, NT or whatever webserver you want.
ohhhh ok sorry that's why most web design is done like that
sorry i must have overlooked that :)

}I wouldn't call using FrontPage smarter. I'd call it lazier. It has its
}place for those who don't know all the tags (and can't look them up
}quickly in an online reference). Those who can't conceptualise what a
}page is going to look like without having it displayed there in front of
}them the whole time (though u just need a browser beside your vi session
}under x to do the same thing).
oh man...that's the wrong attitude
i know all the tags, but i wouldn't waste me time creating and maintaining
a site using bloody vi and gimp
this is commercial reality, not some one off hobby

}There's nothing _wrong_ with using FrontPage. It just appeals to a
}certain type of person. I happen to prefer being able to control exactly
}what is going to happen on my page without having to go through 5 menus
}and get asked 'Do you really want to?' all the time. It's like the
}difference between C and oh.. I dunno.. Eiffel? C assumes you know what
}to do, Eiffel assumes you don't.
fair comment....most MS products cater for a broader range of people, those
who just aren't smart enough to use a CLI

}Either way, if you do it right the first time, your maintenance should be
}as low as it can be.
what was that you said before .... RCS?
just today i had to change every page in a 100 page site because the
managment didn't like a few words and some of the images......had nothing
to do with it being right.....things change, shit happens....

thanks for duel Justin :)

Patrick Kennedy
W  e  b  m  a  s  t  e  r
Keycorp Limited, Sydney Australia
+612 9414 5429 (b)   +612 0412 577 362 (m)
pkennedy@nospam.keycorp.com.au


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